Rsc Diesel Shunter Pack

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by PengiPeter, Nov 26, 2024.

  1. PengiPeter

    PengiPeter Member

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    I have two scenarios that are installed in the Dorset & Somerset route and although they are for that route I don't think they came with the original install of that DLC. I seem to remember (over 10 years ago) that they came with some other DLC that included several scenarios for different DLC. The scenarios require a Class 11 and a Class 12 which I have never owned. I replaced these locos in the scenarios with a Class 08 so I could play the scenarios.

    My question is not about what DLC installed these scenarios but what DLC do the required locos come from?
    According to LocoSwap there path would be Assets\RSC\DieselShunterPack\* but I haven't been able to find this pack on Steam or in the SteamDB. In fact, I can't even find any mention of it at all on Google.
     
  2. Gary Padley

    Gary Padley Active Member

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    LocoSwap's telling you the truth; it's an old pack, marketed as "Up The Junction" (dated 2010). The best thing in the pack is/was
    [​IMG]
    Steam DB--https://steamdb.info/app/24081/info/
     
  3. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    As an unrelated side note, it is true that there are old scenarios no longer available. Look up the manual for the Class 31 (might be the 33). There is a scenario called "Toothpaste Railtour" listed in the manual that is not in the install, for Great Western Main Line. I did find a depot ID that confirms the scenario folder by getting a copy of the scenario to compare, so I know that scenario is the one from that depot (and it's the only thing in that depot). Meanwhile, a scenario now included with the pack in question is not in the manual. They never updated the manual. ;)

    The Class 11 and Class 12 are IHH products, I believe. Port Road scenarios also came with DLC back in the day. I have also identified the fictional routes in scenario packs. They are removed, too. In fact, a source who owns the IHH DLC showed me evidence that Port Road scenarios came with an IHH version of a train, while Steam has the other included scenarios but not those. There was once a 46 with the 45 (the only 46 now is a VP reskin). And then there is the 26, and an 82 that apparently only works on WCML North and no where else.

    EDIT: Here, try this from 2015: https://web.archive.org/web/20150209233601/http://www.ironhorsehouse.co.uk/

    Note the store links, even converted to live versions, DO NOT WORK.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2024
  4. Gary Padley

    Gary Padley Active Member

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    That's wrong..the 82 works anywhere.

    For some reason this didn't get displayed earlier: The 08/09/10/11/12, and more importantly for me the class 13, locos are from the Up the junction pack. Look for 24081 in the Steam DB
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2024
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  5. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Ah, maybe because it was the only route supporting it at the time it came out? Or I was given wrong information. :)
     
  6. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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  7. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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  8. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I think at the time the Class 82 was released the only BR AC Route was WCML North
    Any Scenarios would have been just for that route.
     
  9. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Makes sense. :)
     
  10. Gary Padley

    Gary Padley Active Member

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    Where do you get your information from?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    It's called "I forget the exact details". I checked my DM history and the scenario I asked about in the DM was Double Dutch. The Toothpaste Railtour scenario DOES exist. See video.



    Perhaps it was Toothpaste Railtour missing in the manual, but I found it referenced somewhere. I can't find it in my collection at this moment.

    EDIT: Found it.

    upload_2024-11-26_16-37-0.png

    Another version (Career) uses the folder "666df2ac-9116-9943-a56b-93ac352345ac".
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2024
  12. Gary Padley

    Gary Padley Active Member

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    What video?
    Only one I can find is www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BvXR-UdtOg

    described as "Bonus"...understandable that it may nor show in any manual then, but you're claiming the reverse.
    If we're now looking for "Double Dutch", that is included in the class 33 pack
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2024
  13. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    See my edits. I found the scenario I mentioned, I just forgot which route it was on. Check the depot and you'll notice the Career folder ID on page 7. It turns out it's the one missing in the manual but is included in the package.

    https://steamdb.info/depot/208298/

    Double Dutch (b51903a4-8cf7-47ba-98e1-1f0750d3721) is missing. And it's in the manual. And on GWML, just like I suggested.

    Just got them mixed up. :D
     
  14. PengiPeter

    PengiPeter Member

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    Well, that sparked a good conversation. I often learn more when you guys have a good argument!
    I remember Up The Junction DLC being available but at that time I wasn't buying none-route DLC. I built up a large collection of routes before I ever looked at stand-alone locos etc. In fact, according to my purchase history, I owned the game for 7 years before buying my first rolling stock DLC (in 2016).

    Thing is, I would buy that pack now (probably would have done long before now) if it was available.... for £2.99
     
  15. Gary Padley

    Gary Padley Active Member

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    Hence "Bonus"
    No...it's not missing, and no it's not what you suggested.
    Once again you've taken a thread well away from it's subject by spouting rubbish.

    phardcastle, you're very unlikely to find a copy of the shunter pack to download, but swapping out any missing items for a more *normal* 08/09 will sort that out.
     
  16. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps you should not try to carry on an argument and it would be a bit less derailed, yes?
     
  17. Gary Padley

    Gary Padley Active Member

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    Agreed, but isn't that a pot calling the kettle grimy arse? If you were a little bit more accurate in what you post we'd have no cause to argue would we?
     
  18. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Common process for a thread derailing:

    1. Person posts slightly inaccurate information
    2. Another party says you are wrong, do your research
    3. Original commenter says a mistake was made, often corrects the mistake.
    4. Absolutely unnecessary back and forth commentary about the mistake ensues.

    We could have stopped without the fourth step. But to close the argument now, I will point out where Double Dutch is located.

    SteamDB page: https://steamdb.info/app/65240/
    SteamDB file depot: https://steamdb.info/depot/65240/

    Per the post above, see that the Double Dutch scenario ID matches. Check the first link for packages and see that none are currently for sale. My original statement that there is a scenario that can no longer be obtained with the Class 33, and the fact that it's still listed in the manual, is absolutely correct. "Toothpaste Railtour" perhaps replaced that scenario, but I cannot comment on whether both were at one time in the same package. Regardless, while I got the titles mixed up, my point of DLC contents changing over time is proven and we can stop arguing now. :D

    ...oh, and one last note. In post 3: "...listed in the manual that is not in the install, for Great Western Main Line". I did say it. Route 00000001 under the 65240 link is that route. Again, I had the wrong scenario. Let's drop this now. :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2024
  19. Gary Padley

    Gary Padley Active Member

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    We were never arguing about the fact that contents of packs can/will/have changed over time.
     
  20. Spikee1975

    Spikee1975 Guest

    Up The Junction also included a tiny route. (000000bd-0000-0000-0000-000000000000)
     
  21. Blazin

    Blazin Well-Known Member

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    Wow that’s awesome. This is a short of shunter pack I’ve always wanted for the game featuring Classes 08-13.

    I’ve also always wanted featuring Classes 01-07. Small shunters are a lot of fun to play around with! :)
     
  22. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Hopetown - the only Australian route DTG ever released. And the pack came with the Victorian F Class, the only Australian train DTG released. I assume it's the only broad gauge train DTG released as well, but I can't be certain.
     
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  23. PengiPeter

    PengiPeter Member

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    Well if the shunter pack is no longer available and never will be again... I don't suppose anyone who has it might ... erm ... wink wink :) ???
     
  24. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Do not make such suggestions. Piracy is frowned upon.
     
  25. Spikee1975

    Spikee1975 Guest

    Imho it's ridiculous. The pack is not on sale, there's no profit made with it anyway, so you can't steal anything from anyone.

    DTG have allowed the free release of the withdrawn Advanced Decal Scenery Pack (see my signature link and find it in the Assets section) and the APStation pack was also released for free, DTG Jan posted that on rail-sim.de.

    Why not ask kindly?

    dtg_jan, would it be possible to get a permission to freely distribute that old small vintage RailWorks pack? It's apparently of no use for DTG anymore.

    https://steamdb.info/app/24081/
     
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  26. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    The same question pertains to other needed packs, and I have a good collection of packs that I would love to see allowed to be used. The Class 37 (24037) is needed for a million old UKTS reskins, while the old Class 08 (24022 and also with UKTS reskins), the old RSDL Class 66 (24023 - and yes, more reskins), the original Class 158 (24024), and the Advenza model of the Class 57 (less likely, possible lost license, but 24077 bundled it with the Rail Tour and Freightliner back in the day) would provide for additional utility. And let's not forget the original 101 still showing up from time to time (24068); at this point, the community would benefit by having everything for that back together and bringing the green skin back into play.

    And finally, Port Road (24079)! Yes, it's a small shaving off of the WLoS route, but it can be treated as a free demo. Or why not just pair it with WLoS?
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2024
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  27. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    Might be a casual mistake. The 31 and 33 share the YGH wagon so they may have been developed hand in hand.
    The scenario is for the old PDL. You are not wrong in general though, although the only one I clearly miss is for NS Coal District.
    20210528161904 - Class 33 NSE, Coach Mk1 BR Blue-Grey.jpg
    upload_2024-11-27_7-24-41.png
    Overall might be similar to the Amtrak Dash-8, which at first glance appears to be an early development but released for a later route. In case of the 31-33, instead of the 20th DLC for the GWML, they're Settle-Carlisle and PDL respectively.
     
  28. Blazin

    Blazin Well-Known Member

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    Much agreed! Lots of vintage Railworks DLC out there completely lost to time and now of no use to any developer monetarily. Having a permission granted free depository of very old RailWorks DLC since discontinued would be very useful for many and I would love to have lots of that old content. It’s also good for videogame media preservation if you’re into that sort of thing.
     
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  29. PengiPeter

    PengiPeter Member

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    Most of those items don't have to be given away free. Those of us who want them will pay for them. Maybe not £11.99 but something reasonable seeing that they were not available in the first place. A couple of years ago I found the "Phorum Peninsula" route somewhere on the Internet and downloaded it for free. It hadn't been seen on an official store for a decade or more. I enjoy it a lot and it works perfectly well. Is that piracy?

    I realise that licences etc. may be involved in some cases but I'd doubt that is the case with the shunter pack or many other old locos and rolling stock packs. I suppose, in some cases there may have been technical reasons for withdrawing a pack. Otherwise they should simply be available, like music releases (or anything else in digital format) it's not like they have to have millions of copies stored in a warehouse anymore.

    In some cases it may just be that Dovetail themselves have forgot that certain items ever existed.
     
  30. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    I wish there was a 'legacy content pack' that included withdrawn content, with no changes, released for free under the notion that it was solely for compatibility purposes. There's plenty of former IHH stuff that DTG are holding on to that the community could do so much with like the CoBo and 29.
     
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  31. Spikee1975

    Spikee1975 Guest

    Could be technical reasons.

    When "TSX" was introduced (DynamicLights and rain effects), a preservation crew updated the old RS stock. (They eventually stopped, the RailSimulatorUS pack still has a few non-TSX locos without rain effects and headlight spots - they only updated the UP SD40-2 but not the rest.)

    Possibly these were also not reworked and thus dropped, some superseded by newer DLC packs like the 08.

    If there is no licensing involved, they could just give it away for free as it's not making them money in any case. IHH is a different thing and DTG won't release their stuff - legal department said No!
     
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  32. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    DTG also had the annoying habit of withdrawing a pack, dividing it up and releasing each part separately. The Class 101 was in one big pack initially before being resold separately, with some liveries never being released again.
     
  33. Spikee1975

    Spikee1975 Guest

    Yea but liveries are out there from Richard Fletcher, Vulcan, BackdatedSim and DPSimulation. And ATS. And and and.... :)

    Doomotron a propos - I just made a silly mistake and Shift-deleted folders from

    RSC\Class423Pack01\RailVehicles\Electric\Class423\BRGrey-NSE

    I'm sure this repaint came with an AP DLC or Extra Stock pack - impossible for me to find out which one as they're not listed anywhere.

    Anybody has that and could send me the files? I've mass downloaded AP packs and Extra Stock but haven't hit the right one.

    Only have the DTCL folder left
    2024-11-27 15_00_58-Window.png
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2024
  34. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    I have a feeling that livery you're missing is a DPS reskin but I don't know for sure. I'll have a look later if I have it on my computer.
     
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  35. Spikee1975

    Spikee1975 Guest

    AP put a lot of different repaints for the 421 and 423 in there, all cluttered in various enhancement and extra stock packs (has anybody made an Excel sheet with the additional AP reskins?)

    I don't think it's a DP/RF reskin as these require the AP 421-422-423 Sound Pack which I do not have.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2024
  36. steve.cunningham1980

    steve.cunningham1980 Active Member

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    Anywhere with electrification, at least.
     
  37. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Staff Member

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    That scenario brings back memories :D - I did it my own time to practice scenario creation, but it never replaced anything, i just wanted to do a Network Southeast scenario (I might copy it into the newer Portsmouth route just for the fun of it, if i get time :) )
     
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  38. Spikee1975

    Spikee1975 Guest

    :D
    2024-11-27 18_43_28-Train Simulator (x64).png 2024-11-27 18_43_47-Train Simulator (x64).png
     
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  39. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    I suspect the reason is that they are in limbo:
    • too good to be offered for free and compete with TSW (and everything TSC - people just pick up the free content and never need payware)
    • too bad to be offered for money (which is entirely subjective).
    And, possibly, without some really awesome DLC browser on Steam, these old packs might cause some trouble and confusion. At one point you could see all DLC but these days it's just top(200) and then browse away.

    I also feel rather alone playing Steam DLC while most people seem to stick to 3rd party stuff, with regular licit sessions of who can belittle harder whenever something new is released. Having played some semi-withdrawn DLC (like the CN SD40), I can't imagine anyone being happy with them.

    Thus, overall, there is one option for DTG: keep them away.
     
  40. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I knew it was one of those trains, but I identified the wrong scenario. See the conversation (argument?) above. Double Dutch was what I was referencing, not Toothpaste Railtour (which isn't even in the manual).
    There is something along the lines of abandonware, but it's a grey area. I would not get into discussing giving away old DTG packs here, but let DTG make that decision. As for Phorum Peninsula, it was made by people at UKTS and assets from individual users were part of this charity release; as Matt owned UKTS (now shut down in late 2023), and the route was temporarily available on Steam, it's not something that can be easily acquired anyway. I stumbled upon something once that I have since not found, but because I am cautious about these things, I have never tried to use it. And good news: you don't need to! London Transport Heritage Route is mostly the same route. The trains and scenarios are different, and the old UKTS assets that would have needed creator permissions are gone. Need proof? There is a Phorum Peninsula AP file in the DTG folder under that route somewhere.
    I have provided assistance already to this, so no worries about this one folks. It only has a DTCL folder and was available in AP extra stock packs. Found it in my Archive of Glorious Old Stuff™. :D
     
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  41. USRailFan

    USRailFan Active Member

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  42. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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  43. USRailFan

    USRailFan Active Member

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    Nope, exact same assets (possibly slightly updated, but folder structure and names are the exact same)
     
  44. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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  45. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    As noted, check depot 24024.
     
  46. Spikee1975

    Spikee1975 Guest

    It won't work without a rework. Different marker names for starters. Need to figure out what "Portal 2" is named now. I'll run a second instance of TS in the background to compare and fix all paths.

    I'd like to fix this and upload it to Workshop for PDL-Waterloo if you don't mind :)

    2024-11-28 06_46_40-Train Simulator (x64).png
    2024-11-28 07_02_36-.png
    2024-11-28 07_04_04-.png

    After correcting all destinations, some trains are misplaced and must be "rerailed". I have moved each consist a little so the game recognises and snaps them to the track again.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 28, 2024
  47. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    The different portal names are for sure something that can break scenarios on what should be identical route sections. Another route that shows this issue is North Jersey Coast Line to Morristown. It is missing the portal where the route ended prior to the Morristown extension. This means any trains using that portal would have to be pathed to continue along the Morristown route before being removed at another portal instead. If no trains use it, the scenario could work perfectly. This serves as a great example of why not every scenario can copy to every similar route by default; you have to check the details. See below. "Newark Broad St 2" is the guilty portal. Note you can add it back on a local copy and keep the files for that extracted, but Steam might try to clean it up if you do a verification.

    upload_2024-11-28_1-16-23.png

    upload_2024-11-28_1-17-12.png
     
  48. Spikee1975

    Spikee1975 Guest

    Cyclone, we are aware that different routes may have different markers :)

    After checking all consists, checking they're not occupying two blocks, I've eliminated all errors. :D The red timings are not an issue atm, I do not wanna break any intended scenario flow. Sometimes, they don't matter at all, being just seconds off (and players are usually driving at more than 75% performance).

    2024-11-28 07_57_05-Train Simulator (x64).png

    Starting the scenario (script not yet active)
    2024-11-28 07_59_56-Train Simulator (x64).png

    Script active, luckily all coordinates are the same for the camera flight
    2024-11-28 08_03_47-Train Simulator (x64).png
    2024-11-28 08_09_57-Train Simulator (x64).png

    All I need is atomicdanny's OK to publish it on WS. Due to stock used, the old PDL will be a requirement. I've set the weather to "3D 2.Cloudy", which means anyone can choose to play it with DynamicClouds or not. If not, you'll have default DTG sky or AP Fair Cloud automatically if installed.

    That's the nice thing, you can run multiple installations at the same time, which comes in very handy for scenario restoration. I've ran the second instance with lowest settings possible as they're not important there.

    Apologies for this huge thread derailment. At least, it resulted in a rerailment. ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 28, 2024
  49. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Staff Member

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    I mean you don't really need my permission because it's a "DTG Scenario" (still though thank you for asking)- i guess i won't need to do my version after all (but equally i was going to replace the AI :) with more accurate ones - i mean i copied it across and had that :)

    (as in replaced with the stock in the newer route where i can :) )

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2024
  50. Spikee1975

    Spikee1975 Guest

    Yes I had to relocate a lot of trains to their original place :D

    But still you have to acknowledge how well the editor handles this. Even if not valid or next to the tracks, it keeps the consists. I did all the conversion in one session without a single crash. Comparing the two mapviews, these misplaced consists do not show up on the map so you immediately see there's something wrong.

    So what about me sending you the converted scenario and you swap the stock?
     
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